All the Sun For You

A mom, two boys, a husband, and a whole lot of adventure!


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Another Day…

Matthew tried knocking his teeth out again today.  It was worse than yesterday.

We went to the YM.CA to meet a friend to go swimming and that went great until it was time to go.  We swam, and played, and dunked ourselves for an hour and laughed the entire time.  It was wonderful!  We got out of the pool to get dressed to go, and I was very careful with Matthew the entire time because of the slippery floor.  I got him dressed first and then anchored him between my knees as I got dressed.  I even put on his shoes because I thought they’d be “grippier” than his feet on the tile floor.  I wiped up the floor to dry it off as best I could before setting him down for a second so I could load up our bag.  And that’s when it happened.

I heard the splat, then the thunk… and then the wail.

His mouth was bleeding again – and worse than yesterday.

I freaked out.  It took everything in me (and a whole lot of swearing) to not start sobbing.  The bleeding was terrible and his poor top teeth were covered in blood.  A nice couple checked him out for me and said his teeth seemed fine, but to take him to the dentist if it would make me feel better.

It would.

So I did.

But first… I had an appointment I had to keep.  We had our first ultrasound today.  I felt like I was choosing between my kids for the first time ever.  Take Matthew to the dentist right now and skip the ultrasound, or take him to the dentist after the ultrasound?  I called the dentist to see when they could get him in and they said to come between 2:00 and 3:00 – so that was perfect.  Our ultrasound appointment was at 1:30 so I could do both.

Thank God!

I drove around for 45 minutes as Matthew napped in the car before dropping him off at my friend’s house so I could go to my ultrasound.  I was on pins and needles.  To be perfectly honest, I’ve not had a good feeling about this pregnancy for the last 3 days.  I started feeling sick just yesterday but today, I’ve felt fine, so I figured that yesterday may have been a stomach bug.  Prior to not feeling sick, I just did not feel like things were going well in there.  But it turns out – they are.

We have one perfectly growing baby!  I am so thankful that it’s just one – that when the ultrasound tech said, “wait a minute” just before finishing up, I got really nervous.  She thought she may have seen another sac behind the one baby – but she did not.  Big sigh of relief!  The baby is measuring 1-2 days ahead of schedule (6w4d today but measuring 6w6d) and the heart beat was a solid 126.  We are thrilled, relieved, and happy!

When I took Matthew to the dentist, he was very happy to play with the Le.go table again:

It turned out that his teeth are just fine (again) but that his lower lip got the major injury this time.  He has two punctures in his lower lip but was eating fine today.  The dentist said that the damage from yesterday is already healing.  She also said that he is a kid who needs to be wrapped up in bubble wrap.

B agrees  😉

The rest of the day was a blur.  We had to get Lily Cat to the vet for her weekend at the spa (we board her so she can get her insulin twice daily) and stop at the store to get stuff for dinner and the trip to Chicago.

Busy day!

Matthew is asleep, we are now waiting for Steph, JJ, and Chloe to arrive, I have a Jackson Cat in my lap, and I have a growing baby in my tummy.  My hard day ended pretty well!


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Ruined for Nothing

I’ve had a hard day – I mean – the type of day that brings you to your knees.  It all started yesterday, actually, when Matthew’s cold was getting obviously worse and we had a major diaper situation at a restaurant over lunch.  It was not good and our return home was even worse – and neither of us really ever recovered.  Matthew’s cold got worse by the hour and I didn’t get to rest at all until he was in bed.  It was exhausting.

So yesterday was hard, but today was almost impossible.  Matthew feels even worse and is showing it.  He’s actually a really good “sick baby” and still sleeps through the night until his normal wake-up time, but it’s not as good of a sleep so he wakes up cranky.  He was cranky all day and even though he had a 2.5 hour nap, it wasn’t a good nap due to his cough.  He woke up 3 times and cried a bit.  It was heartbreaking.  Dinner was a challenge because he doesn’t want to eat solid food right now, which makes me think he has a sore throat.  Matthew threw his chicken at me from the moment I put it in front of him and even refused his grapes, which he usually devours. He had only cottage cheese and veggie pouches tonight for dinner – which I’m ashamed of.  He’s a sad baby  😦

To make the day worse, I got a bill from Medi.a.com for $264 even though we cancelled service on 10/11 and paid in full before that date.  I absolutely lost my shit over this because we even have receipts saying we owe them nothing – and calling to talk to them takes a freaking lifetime.  I spent 10 minutes on hold (shorter than I expected) and then talked with the gal who insisted on talking with B since it was his name on the account.  I explained to her that she would much rather discuss this with me because he hates them more than I do – so she talked to me.  I swore on the phone – not my proudest moments, but I am so sick of this cable company screwing everyone simply because they can.  I swore several times.  It wasn’t good.

So I’ve had a rough day… and it was after the call with Medi.a.com that I realized why I was in such a bad mood.

It wasn’t Matthew’s crankiness.

It wasn’t the Medi.a.com bill (even though, HOLY HELL, that made my mood way worse).

It wasn’t my lack of rest.

It wasn’t because B is out-of-town tonight.

It was because I needed to give myself my own PIO shot for the first time (aside from the three I did in my thigh while pregnant with Matthew and OMG that was a mistake.  OUCH!).

I watched a couple of videos during the day, trying to get pumped up for it, but the videos scared me even more.  I was trying to figure out who I would call to do my shot.  The neighbor next door who is a nurse?  My friend who did all of her own?  My friend’s husband who’s a doctor?  B’s coworker’s husband who’s a nurse?  I would have felt bad springing my need on any of them, so I wondered if I should suck it up and do it myself.

I watched Keikos’ video and read through the comments.  I noticed that Shelley commented a few weeks ago that she had to do her own PIO shots because her husband would be out-of-town.  So… I emailed her.

I just love this community!  Shelley emailed me back right away with a step-by-step description of what to do.  I read it, and thought, “you can do this.”  She was so helpful and pumped me up so much – to the point that I just wanted to get to it so I could say it was done!

I did it.  And it was no big deal.  It did not hurt.  There was no blood.  I didn’t throw up.

(But my hands were still shaking a bit afterwards.)

An entire day ruined for nothing!

 

 

 

 

 


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How I Am

I’ve been getting lots of text messages and emails asking me how I’m doing.  I must be a little quiet – that’s not normal for me  😉

I’m doing well.  I’m tired… so very, very tired.  I don’t remember being this tired when I was pregnant with Matthew, but then again, I was crazy excited to finally be pregnant and maybe that energy kept the yawns at bay.  I’m not feeling sick at all and I feel very fortunate here – I know this is not the case with many people.  I was never sick with Matthew so I’m hoping this bodes well for the rest of this pregnancy.

To be perfectly honest (because am I ever anything but an open book?), I forget that I’m pregnant.  I hate admitting that, but it’s true.  I just plain forget a lot of the time.  When you don’t have any symptoms (even my breasts aren’t going crazy yet unless Matthew steps on them), it’s easy to not even think about what’s going on in there.

I’m strangely calm about this pregnancy and just a little nervous for our ultrasound coming up in a couple of weeks.  I know that I’ll walk in with the fear of God in me for that appointment, but right now, it’s just not phasing me.  When I was pregnant with Matthew, it was ALL I thought about.  Will there be one or two?  If two, will they both be OK?  Will there be a fetal pole?  Will there be a heartbeat? Will it be measuring right on track?  Will there be any concerns?

Yeah – none of those thoughts are really going through my mind.  I’m not sure why, really.  I have an inkling that it’s because I was not really thinking this would work – and I sort of counted on it not working.  As everyone knows, I wanted a little more space between my kids and I viewed this cycle as the one to get out-of-the-way, the one to fail so that we could move on with our real cycle.

But this one did work.  This one was our real cycle.  And I’m still a little stunned.  I just did not plan on it going this way at all.

And don’t get me wrong – I am thrilled that it worked.  I am thrilled that it was just that easy.  But I’m also having some guilt here –  because it was just that easy.  I read so many of you who are trying to get pregnant with a sibling for your current child, or who are still trying for your first – and I do feel guilty that I fell on the right side of the odds for once.  When I got pregnant with Matthew, after a failed IVF cycle and an early loss with our FET, I felt that the odds had finally come up for me.  There was no guilt whatsoever after 2.25 years of struggle.

This time – we beat the odds – and I just don’t know how to process that.

I do find myself thinking ahead as well.  What do we do now that we have 5 embryos left?  I know that our plan is to go for a third child, but what if that works right away like this one did and leaves us with 3 remaining embryos?  That could happen given that we’ve had  ZERO success with the embryos from that cycle and I have to believe there’s at least one good one in there waiting for us.  I can’t have a fourth pregnancy due to my scheduled c-sections (please don’t chime in on doing a VBAC – we have already discussed this with our OB at length and the wonderful Dr. H (who supports me 100% in my choices) really doesn’t want to go there with me).  This fact just hit me today – and it’s not like we even want 4 children, but I’m not prepared to make a decision later on for our “left-over” embryos if we do have them.  I know I’m putting the cart WAY before the horse, but it’s is on my mind.

I find myself thinking about our extended families now that we’re going to be adding another member to them.  Because of this, I tried to remedy an outstanding situation this past weekend with B’s sisters and it errupted even further.  I believe it was a good development though – because we found out about some deep-seeded anger that had not been shared with us for over 5.5 years – but it still left me feeling irritated that no one seems to want to discuss things so that we can move on.  Honest words were exchanged and then… silence.  I am not an ostrich and it’s very hard for me to act like things are OK when they’re not, especially when I have some pretty important news to share with them soon.  I have no idea how we’ll share our good news with them.  BUT – I didn’t know how to do it before I addressed “the situation” this past weekend, so I’m not really in any different position than I was before (but I do feel much better having addressed my concerns).  I don’t regret trying to remedy things, though, because that is who I am – talk about it, everyone says what they need to say, resolve it, and then we all move on and start fresh.  No hard feelings.

I am the anomoly in this family  😉

So that is how I am.  All-in-all, I’m really good!  I am feeling some guilt, some joy, some happiness, some disappointment, some frustration, some uncertainty, but much love.  I am trying not to think too hard about anything right now because I have a beautiful little boy who is so much fun right now (but when has he not been so much fun?!) and a husband who loves me even though I’m a bad wife sometimes (most times, recently).  I need to drink those two up and forget the rest, and that’s what I’m trying really hard to do!

Two great things to focus on, right there!


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Leap of Faith

I took a leap of faith the day before my first beta.

I thought about the fact that I’d be wearing the exact same maternity clothes as I did with Matthew since I’d be due the same day, so I inventoried in my mind what I would need.  I would need short-sleeved t-shirts.  It’s fall right now – surely G.ap Maternity would have those types of shirts on a steep discount, right?  (This is how I talk to myself in my head to justify shopping.)

I wondered if I could jinx things by going to check out their sales, or if I should wait.

I decided that was ridiculous – you can’t jinx a pregnancy.

I went.  I bought 3 long-sleeved shirts and 3 short-sleeved ones (for $7-$9 each!).

And I bought these:

No – not for twins – don’t get ahead of yourselves!

I mean – they were $6 each – what was I supposed to do?  I thought about how holiday-specific they were and that if this pregnancy was a bust, that these would be a completely useless purchase.  I then figured, if this pregnancy is a bust, I’ll just mail them on over to Belle!

I got my second beta today and it doubled in 39.5 hours.  We are looking good so far and I’m eerily calm about this pregnancy.  My ultrasound is scheduled within the next few weeks.

I should take leaps of faith more often.


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So Far, So Good

We are satisfactorily pregnant!  I was not nervous at all about the beta, and as I suspected, it was rather anticlimactic.  Great news, of course, but we already knew that we had something going strong in there with all the HPT’s I’ve accumulated.  I know they’re not quantitative, but they are qualitative and they’ve qualified my suspicions that HCG is rising adequately.

So we have another beta on Thursday to make sure we’re doubling appropriately.  I am a bit nervous about that one.  That one will be the climax of my week!

More later, but wanted to put this out there in case anyone is checking.


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Expectations

Our beta is tomorrow.

I won’t be posting the number here on my blog.  I will simply notify if we’re looking good or not – but that is all.

And here’s why.  We’ve been here before.  We’ve been through 4 cycles now and so far, have 1.1 kids to show for them.  We’ve had the flat-out negative beta, a questionable beta (ended in an empty sac), and a super high “it must be twins” beta.  I learned very valuable lessons from each situation – the number means nothing specific and I don’t want speculation.

Speculation is normal.  Everyone has their own experiences to draw from.  We like to see other people with similar experiences (when they’re positive experiences).  I’ve seen quite a few bloggers with high betas lately and most of their commenters say, “I bet it’s twins.”  Well – I had an unusually high beta for 10dp5dt and betabase even had me at the highest end for twins.  Turned out I did have twins, but lost one before the ultrasound (could see its sad little sac degenerating away).  I always think about that when people post about their high betas, and then commenters chime in and speculate that twins are onboard.  It literally nauseates me (because of my own personal experience).

So I will avoid all of that speculation in an attempt at self-preservation.  But I will let you know if it’s looking good or not.

I also think that many blog posts (and their titles) announcing beta numbers and ultrasound results can be triggers for those TTC (#1 or #5 – it doesn’t really matter, right?).  I’m not judging here – just saying it’s not my cup of tea.  I am ultra-sensitive to this – I tend to follow lots of gals and guys still trying for their first take-home baby and I ache for them.  I don’t want to post anything that could upset them, especially something that pops up in their reader when they could be having a rough day.  I don’t want them to see my post title of “Baby on Board” and be caused even a moment of heartache.

So tomorrow, I will not be posting my beta numbers on my main blog.  I may put them in my TTC timeline – I’m not sure yet.  I do ask, though, that if I put the numbers there, please do not speculate within the comments as to what you think they mean.

This is weird territory for me, I feel like I’m straddling the fence.  I am excited, but I’m also still an infertile who very much feels that pain.  If I’m not feeling it for me, I’m feeling it for others.  And the truth is, I wouldn’t have it any other way.  This is who I am.


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Lucky Day

Two years ago today, we found out that Matthew was on the way.  I woke up early and literally jumped out of bed to use the bathroom – not because I really had to go – but because it was 7dp5dt.

I got my second pink line.

It wasn’t my first BFP – we’d had the empty sac the cycle just before and I’d tested with that “pregnancy” since 5dp5dt (first BFN, the BFP at 7dp5dt).  But this one felt different – it felt like it was “the one.”

And it was.

Today – I am 7dp5dt with this pregnancy.  If you haven’t been following for too long, you may not know that this pregnancy was transferred on the exact same day as Matthew – 10/12.  My children are exactly 2 years apart.*  I have the same due date with this one as I did with Matthew (06/30).  This used to bother me, but many of you at the time of finding this out reminded me that it could be good luck – that 10/12 is our day.  I believe you all now.  I believe 10/12 is the D family’s lucky day!

This time around feels different.  I’m not nervous for the beta, I’m not freaking out when my HPT is just slightly darker than the morning (or night) before.  I POAS, gaze at it for a bit, line it up just perfectly with the rest, smile, and leave the room.**  I only return to look at them a few times a day.  With Matthew, I carried the sticks with me (I even put it in my purse and took it to work with me = CRAZY).  I would have slept with them if B would have let me (or rather, if I hadn’t feared he’d think I was nuts – I never did tell him I wanted to sleep with them).

This time is just more peaceful.  I am loving it.

This morning, I jumped out of bed to use the bathroom – not because it was 7dp5dt – but because I really had to go  😉

* Matthew was breech so I had a scheduled c-section.  Because of that, we will most definitely schedule this next one for a few days after Matthew’s birthday so that each child has their own day.

** I have updated my IVF/FET timeline with a progression photo of the HPT’s, if you care.


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Baby Crazy

This post is my contribution to the monthly theme post over at PAIL.  The timing of this was unreal – I woke up this morning knowing that I wanted to write about this very topic, and then saw it in my reader 2 hours later.  FATE!

This month, the ladies at PAIL asked if we are baby crazy.

Ummm… yeah!

Well…. I was.

The minute (and I mean, the minute) we decided to start trying for a family, I became obsessed with all things TTC and all things baby.  I bought the OPK’s, tracked every cycle (but did not do BBT charts), and made poor B do the deed every other day for 10 days each month – and I tracked every piece of that data in a spreadsheet (of course I did).  I even expected him to attempt to make a baby in a tent at the top of a mountain in Colorado in 40-50* temps.  He did not comply with my crazy, so I unleashed a whole new level of crazy the entire hike down the mountain the next day – and for the first time in our year of TTC, B told me that I was, “baby crazy.”  I resented it at the time.

But he was right – I was baby crazy.

Once we were seeing our RE, I became obsessed with all things related to IVF and FET’s.  I knew my clinic’s stats by heart for the last 3 years.  I created spreadsheets (of course I did) for each cycle and for tracking fertility expenses covered by insurance.  I planned out 3 IVF cycles on a calendar because the RE said that we would attempt it three times before changing our plan.  I told B that we could not take this trip (or that trip), or run this race (or that race) “because we could be cycling.”  Poor B planned a trip to Hilton Head for February 2011 and I lost my shit over it on Christmas morning (the trip was my Christmas present), asking how he could do that knowing that we had to do IVF.

If B could have gotten a nickel for every time I said, “we can’t do that because we could be cycling,” he’d be a very wealthy man right now.

We missed out on so much back then, because I had only one thing on my mind – and that one thing was making a baby.

Once Matthew was conceived and looking on ultrasound like he was going to stick around, I became obsessed with all things for the baby.  I knew every item that the baby would need, and every item that was not a need but a want.  I had spreadsheets (of course I did) of all things we needed and wanted, piles of baby stuff accumulating in the nursery, and a monthly plan of what items we’d buy and when (to spread out the big costs).  I bought baby food recipe books and researched which cloth diapers to buy (and then promptly bought my entire stash and all required accessories – one of our monthly “big items”).  I planned my work and worked my plan – every single night.  I don’t think I talked about much other than the baby, and the baby’s stuff.

I revelled in my pregnancy – I enjoyed it very much.  I joined several websites for weekly fetal development updates and would read a daily development journal when I woke up every morning (thank you, MBS).  I enjoyed feeling symptoms, I wished for more.  I created spreadsheets (of course I did) for kick count monitoring and pregnancy weight gain.  I looked at fetal development photos on the internet all day long while at work.  Even at work – there was nothing on my mind but my baby.

And then Matthew was born – and the obsession stopped.

Sure, I was concerned about his development, his weight gain, breastfeeding, and sleep – but I wasn’t obsessed with those things.  I cared (and still do care) about everything Matthew eats on a daily basis, how much dairy he gets, how many times he poops (he’s never gone longer than 27 hours), how much sleep he gets in a 24-hour period, and how he’s doing with speech (because there are speech delays on both sides of our family).  I make sure we read to him multiple times a day (not a problem – he loves books), constantly converse with him, and let him entertain himself for at least 30 minutes each morning and each afternoon (“because a child who never learns how to be alone will always be lonely”).  But I’m not obsessed.

I’m happy.  I’m happy to have this little boy.  I’m happy to have such a happy little boy.  Matthew makes me smile constantly throughout the day – even when he’s being difficult (his latest temper tantrums are thwarted by him initiating a game of “where’s Matthew?”).  He does not deserve obsession.  He does not deserve to have a mother who scrutinizes his every move.  Doing that would make him unhappy – and that is the one thing I refuse to knowingly do.  I am an obsessive person by nature, but Matthew is like Prozac to me (I can make statements like that – I’ve been on my fair share of antidepressants) and as long as I have him (and B, of course) – I’m good.

I didn’t even obsess over growing our family and providing a sibling for Matthew.  Sure, I could get wrapped up in a mental marathon of how many cycles it would take, what if we ran out of embryos, how much it would cost, etc.  But those thoughts really were fleeting, even if they were intense.  I did create a cycle spreadsheet (of course I did) because that’s what ensured I got all my IVF stuff done (if you have never done IVF, I urge you to check out the sample calendar to get a feel for what all you have to remember to do – it’s a lot), but that was it.  In the past, I’d check that calendar ten times a day (and I’m not even kidding), but this time around, I check it every 3-4 days out of fear that I’ve forgotten something.

It’s just different this time around.  I have my first baby – and if that first baby is my only baby – I am at peace with that.  You may think I’m saying that because I’m currently in the earliest stage of a pregnancy, but if you’ve been following me for a decent amount of time, you know that I’ve always felt that way (and have shared that several times here on my blog).

It feels good to no longer be obsessed.

We booked a trip for January before our transfer last week.  I told B that we are not doing this the same way we did it before.  We continue to live our lives.  We continue to have fun.  We continue to love each other and our child.  We continue moving forward.  We spent too much time in the past standing still – and that makes me sad.

I’ve come a long way from that “baby crazy” lady who was hiking down a Colorado mountain in July 2010.


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Even For Us

After posting yesterday, I read a post from Belle and it really made me want to POAS.  I mean, it was an urge like no other.  At 3.75dp5dt – I just had to do it.  (How crazy is that?)

Once the deed was done (third pee of the day – after only 2 hours of build-up time), I felt instantly better.  All my tension had been released.  Even before seeing the control line, I felt GOOD.  I could move on with my day.

After 3 minutes, I checked that little test and I thought I saw a shadow of a line – but I’m a veteran – I know where those lines are supposed to be.  My eyes were probably putting that second line there.  So I assumed it was a “crazy lady line” and moved on with my day.  It was so crazy that I told myself I would not even show it to B, because it’s not really there and he’ll think I’m… CRAZY.

I swore to SRB that I wouldn’t POAS again until this morning.

And then I headed to Tar.get for more tests because I was clean out and I wanted to be prepared for today with FMU and a batch of tests (of course, right?).

I texted my “bad influence” friend who always encourages me to test early.  😉  (K – I love you!)  I told her about my crazy line and she asked if I’d test later that night.  No – I’ll wait.  She said to test.  I knew she would say that – and that may be why I texted her in the first place.

The evening came and I was feeling great – didn’t even mention my crazy (non-existent) line to B.  No problem.

But then, as Matthew was being all cute and loving – I felt like I was cheating on him thinking about the possibility of Baby #2.  And just like that, I had to POAS again.  I had just used the bathroom an hour earlier, and didn’t even need to really pee – I just had to POAS.  I quietly excused myself (I slow-ran down the hallway = PATHETIC!).

I returned with stick in hand – there was a line.  I saw it, B saw it, it shows up on photos.  At 4.3dp5dt (we transferred at 2:30 PM on Friday), I had my definitive BFP!  I then showed B the “crazy lady” test from earlier in the morning (3.75dp5dt) and he saw it rather easily.  I knew ALL day that I was pregnant – but I didn’t let myself really KNOW IT!

Of course I tested this morning and the line is even darker.  5dp5dt (I am no longer splitting hairs and saying 4.7dp5dt – OK – that’s the last one, I promise!) and I have a BFP.  It has never happened this early!

I know it’s early – we’ve been here before.  As B said last night, we are tentative until we hear the number from the doctor.  But this is a great start!

For now – the FET worked.  That is all I need – to know that it works – that it can work – even for US!


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On Earning It

When this transfer was done, I thought of our remaining five embryos and felt such peace knowing that if this cycle doesn’t work, there will be others.

THERE WILL BE OTHERS.

I know that FET’s work – one of my best friends is proof of it.  Many out there blogging are proof of it.  A friend of a friend is proof of it.  It can work, and why can’t it work for us?

Well, it can.

And we’ve earned it.

“Deserve” is not a term I use often (ever?) – because I don’t really believe in it.  I believe you usually get what you get with the amount of work you put into something – or – sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don’t (which is the case with IF).  It’s that simple to me.  Does anyone “deserve” anything over anyone else?  I truly do not believe they do in most situations.  The word, “deserve,” implies entitlement to me, and I don’t believe in entitlement except when it comes to things such as family building.  I believe everyone “deserves” the family they want in their hearts, and no matter what journey anyone has travelled to get there, they don’t “deserve” it any more than anyone else.

So I won’t use that word here.

Some people have to work harder at building their families, and some don’t.  That’s just how it goes.  It’s sort of like life – some people always seem to land on their feet, when other people seem to struggle at every turn.  Many people earn their families more easily than others, and many of us fight the hard fight to get there.

Some harder than others.

And that’s OK.

I will never believe that I worked as hard as someone who has lost several babies, or suffered a stillbirth or infant death.  I truly believe that people suffering from RPL, stillbirth, and infant loss worked harder for what they earned in the end.

Right or wrong, I just do.

I can say, however, that after 2.5 years of trying for babies, having my ovaries probed twice, experiencing some very scary OHSS, getting hundreds of burning shots in the stomach, getting over 100 IM shots in my butt, having 2 unsuccessful IUI’s, having 4 transfers, and experiencing 1 early miscarriage – this cycle, as easy as it’s been, is hard-earned.

If it’s successful – we most definitely earned it (and it would also be a spot of luck).

It it’s unsuccessful – there will be others.

THERE WILL BE OTHERS.